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Forums » Misadventures (Bug Reports) » What the Heck is With Associations?

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dromlarid


avatar image of dromlarid

Level 12
Vigilante Vigilante
Posts: 106

Ok, I didn't do anything mission-wise but make 6 missions since the last association redo, and I've somehow dropped down in my Destoyer to tertiary again.

How in the heck are associations calculated? I hate this pathmaker association, and despite having done like 4X as many destroyer missions than anything else, I'm primary pathmaker again!

by dromlarid 6 months ago
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pixielo
Steward


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Level 20
Vigilante Vigilante
Posts: 3417

You deployed a lot of lightposts without balancing it out by taking Destroyer missions.

It doesn't seem that total classpoints are taken into consideration--I can change my Association every three days just by monitoring what type of missions I take.
Start repeating all the Destroyer missions, and you'll change back.

by pixielo 6 months ago
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dromlarid


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Level 12
Vigilante Vigilante
Posts: 106

that can't be it, as if you total the number of lightposts I have deployed it's like maybe 50, i've deployed close to 500 mines total.

In summary: it seems to me that it's pretty much random.

by dromlarid 6 months ago
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czarchron


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Level 10
Benefactor Benefactor
Posts: 527

I agree with @orangerineman (see related topic:
http://pmog.com/forums/gameplay/... ) that the way Associations change is frustrating.

If this is a game, I would rather be able to actively choose my Associations rather than just passively become them based on my statistical use of PMOG.

Because as a gamer, now I'm changing my PMOG behavior > to skew my stats > in order to CHOOSE my Associations. It is a frustrating method.

Basically I'm asking that Associations ALSO be a choice. AND since I don't want to upset all the passively playing PMOGers: keep Associations the way they are.

Since "Passively Gaming" is an oxymoron in my mind; what if PMOG expands the Active part by branching. You could use on and off switches. So in your Profile under Associations you have two choices

(*) Passive (Association determined by stats)
( ) Active (Association determined by choice)
... choose your Association here

This would be one way to add interest to the game without interrupting the passive nature of PMOG.

I hope I don't draw too many flames here. Remember I'm coming to PMOG with a gamer mentality. And I understand there is a very fine line that PMOG cannot cross over if passive players are going to have the game turned on 24/7 while they surf. You cannot interrupt the use of the web with a game or people are going to turn it off most of the time, which defeats the point.

Perhaps a solution is to start a rival AMOG (Actively MOG) that gamers are interested in that they can turn on and off when they want to play. Or better yet; A hybrid method for PMOG to work passively in the background, but when you feel the active urge to play, you click the tool bar and now you are actively in a game?

I do love PMOG. I hope it will become the next fad on the Internet.

by czarchron 6 months ago
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kayray


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Level 10
Bedouin Bedouin
Posts: 25

YES! Right-on, czarchron!

I really like this your suggestions. I don't like the random associations. I'm a gamer, and I want to be able to choose my "class" :)

by kayray 6 months ago
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dromlarid


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Level 12
Vigilante Vigilante
Posts: 106

I think the problem with that is that once you reach a higher level, you cannot buy things not associated with your "class" for lack of a better word. I'd be fine with the "pick your own" method if say it was a semi-permanent method. That is, that you couldn't just change association and then buy stuff that you want then.

I do agree that the associations are way too bleepin' random for my tastes.

Even if it were based on me making all those missions that in itself is insanely lame as we are required to make missions to level.

by dromlarid 6 months ago
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kayray


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Level 10
Bedouin Bedouin
Posts: 25

How about a heavy discount for class-related items? The other stuff could be crazy expensive, so you *could* buy it, but it would make more sense to trade for it.

edit: oh, sorry, I completely missed your point :) Yeah, it shouldn't be easy to switch associations. Possible, but penalized or expensive.

by kayray 6 months ago
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czarchron


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Level 10
Benefactor Benefactor
Posts: 527

I think "choosing" your Associations would work the same. Once you hit a certain level, you are stuck with your Associations. That would give you a chance to try them all out as you are leveling up (so if you have only one 'character') but on the last level, you are given a warning or mission to make your final Association choices that will be permanent.

But since you can switch users in PMOG, you could create a "Pathmaker > Seer > Bedouin" and another "Vigilante > Benefactor > Destroyer"

by czarchron 6 months ago
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pixielo
Steward


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Level 20
Vigilante Vigilante
Posts: 3417

@dromlarid "that can't be it, as if you total the number of lightposts I have deployed it's like maybe 50, i've deployed close to 500 mines total.

In summary: it seems to me that it's pretty much random."

I spoke of missions--NOT Tools. Just stop taking random missions. It seems to me that the metrics count classpoints from taking Missions much higher, maybe 10:1 versus deploying Tools.
So you could take 50 Destroyer missions (or one Destroyer mission 50 times) to generate the exact same effect as laying 500 mines.
I really don't use that many Tools at all. I just take only those missions that will get me where I want to be in terms of my Associations.
~•~
You may take missions over and over again to help you change Association.

by pixielo 6 months ago
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orangerineman


avatar image of orangerineman

Level 20
Seer Seer
Posts: 554

I don't want to do missions over and over but I did a couple destroyer ones I hadn't done. We'll see how that goes.

by orangerineman 6 months ago
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pixielo
Steward


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Level 20
Vigilante Vigilante
Posts: 3417

And therein lies the rub: I just take good missions in my chosen Association over, and over, and over, until I change.
20 a day seems to do the trick.

by pixielo 6 months ago
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black-halo


avatar image of black-halo

Level 11
Seer Seer
Posts: 17

We shouldn't have to keep re-doing missions purely because we want to change association. Maybe if we could choose our association but this affected how much DP it costs to buy tools or is earned by certain things.

So as a Pathmaker lightposts are cheap and you earn 10DP for every person who takes your mission but portals are expensive and only earn you 1 or 2 DP if someone takes it (I understand that you currently don't earn DP from portals) however if you are a Seer portals are cheap and earn you 10 DP per use but conversely lightposts are expensive and you only earn 1 or 2 DP per person taking your mission.

How expensive the tools not associated with your class could also do with whether your class is order or chaos so if you are a pathmaker portals would be more expensive than they would be for destroyers.

The problem is the only tool which earns you DP is the lightpost (AFAIK) by people taking your missions if DP was earned by people taking portals etc then

by black-halo 6 months ago
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hurgoll


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Level 16
Benefactor Benefactor
Posts: 50

Blah, Blah, Blah.
Who cares about about associations? I don't, at least until I can be a Riveter (what is the spelling again?)

Fear my walls! No evil shall pass those sites I have chosen to guard!!!!!

by hurgoll 6 months ago
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dromlarid


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Level 12
Vigilante Vigilante
Posts: 106

You'll care when you get to a level where you cant buy things that you're not associated with.

by dromlarid 6 months ago
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dromlarid


avatar image of dromlarid

Level 12
Vigilante Vigilante
Posts: 106

@pixielo

But again, all I did mission wise was CREATE 6 missions. 6 missions that have destroyer assoc. I might add. I did no other missions in the past 3 days, all I had done was make those missions which are destroyer missions.

It's pretty stupid if I have to keep doing the same missions over and over to keep my assoc. even if I'm not doing missions for other assoc.

by dromlarid 6 months ago
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pixielo
Steward


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Level 20
Vigilante Vigilante
Posts: 3417

@dromlarid I'm sorry that you feel re-taking missions is a stupid concept. I find it useful.

But you created 6 missions in one day, no? That seems rather creative and Pathmaker-ish to me. Why not just make one a day for a week? That seems to be a more prudent course of action.

I also don't have any problems with being over level 5 and doing any 'Shopping.' Come visit IRC and get yourself a personal shopper until you figure out how to work with your Associations to maintain a proper stock of Tools.

by pixielo 6 months ago
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dromlarid


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Level 12
Vigilante Vigilante
Posts: 106

heh, well, I only created the 6 in a row because I didn't want so raggamuffin to jump in and do a part of the series.

by dromlarid 6 months ago
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dromlarid


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Level 12
Vigilante Vigilante
Posts: 106

Also, if its related to missions I made, it's also silly because I'm required to make missions to level.

by dromlarid 6 months ago
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pixielo
Steward


avatar image of pixielo

Level 20
Vigilante Vigilante
Posts: 3417

Well...yes, you do need to make a few missions to level--but single mindedly pursuing that goal in one day is rather non-Passive, wouldn't you say? Don't you think that deploying 43 lightposts all on one day qualifies you as a Pathmaker?

by pixielo 6 months ago
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dromlarid


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Level 12
Vigilante Vigilante
Posts: 106

But as I've said, if you're making the argument that deploying 43 mines in one day makes me a pathmaker, deploying 200 mines in an hour should make me a destoyer, as I've done several times.

by dromlarid 6 months ago
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pixielo
Steward


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Level 20
Vigilante Vigilante
Posts: 3417

My point was not exactly about the number of Tools deployed--but the fact that you created six missions in one day...that seems like Pathmaker-ish behavior to me. It may not to you...
Several people have brought up the fact that St. Nicks don't seem to count until they have been actively used; that is, until they have stopped a mine deployment.
Even if you deploy 200 mines in an hour, you can't be sure that they all go off in an hour...and that is more my thinking on how they generate classpoints for the deployer.
~•~
It really just seems so much more cut-and-dried for taking the missions than for making them...

The questions I have sound like this:
Do you earn classpoints when you generate a mission?
If so, what kind? For your current Association? Or just for Pathmaker?

by pixielo 6 months ago
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pixielo
Steward


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Level 20
Vigilante Vigilante
Posts: 3417

I didn't care about Associations until about level 7...and then I realized that it was getting easier and easier to change them by the missions that I took...

To me, since I don't know what the algorithms are, a guess that it's easier to change your Association after level 5--and much, much easier after level 9, is a good thing.

by pixielo 6 months ago
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dromlarid


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Level 12
Vigilante Vigilante
Posts: 106

Ox, now I'm a primary Vigilante, I would love an explanation for that, especially as I've done nothing at all since the last re-calc.

by dromlarid 6 months ago
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dromlarid


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Level 12
Vigilante Vigilante
Posts: 106

...and now a primary Beodin... sigh..

by dromlarid 6 months ago
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pixielo
Steward


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Level 20
Vigilante Vigilante
Posts: 3417

Those two are some of the more passive of the Associations, and in reading the posts, you can see that those seem to pop up when players 'stop' playing.
So, in the absence of mission classpoints or Tool classpoints, you just sink into serious passivity.

by pixielo 6 months ago
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